Ordination Horror.... // July 2, 2007
Ordination Counsel. Two words that will strike fear into any young pastor's heart. My friend Jesse is about to go through the fire that is an ordaining committee and has the requisite fear and trepidation. After I read his post and replied to it, I put some more thought into it and decided to write something about it for my site.
Do read his blog when you get a chance - here are some excerpts:
"In just under a month, I'll be sitting in a room, surrounded by a group of my elders. For several hours they'll be questioning me. Then at the end we'll all eat. No, it's not my Bar Mitzvah. July 28th is my ordination council.
For those of you unfamiliar with the process of ordination, it's simply a way in which the church recognizes and confirms that an individual's has been called by God to the ministry. Basically, the ordainee (me) spends several hours answering questions before a council of church leaders; their goal is to determine if this individual is discerning and trained enough for this call. If the council feels confident in what they've seen and heard, they then authorize that individual to take on the office of ministry.
And frankly, I'm terrified about mine."
My question is: why are these events so terrifying? I think its because they have become these three headed monsters that haunt our dreams. Think about it: you work your brains out during school, go to a church and have to work through all the growing pains of ministry only to have a group of men that you may or may not know ask you obscure and hard questions that you have to answer correctly or they will say that you "might not actually be called!" You have to write this huge paper that sates all that you believe about subjects for which there might be several right answers - but you have to have the answers the counsel is looking for - or they might not honor your call. And if they don't where does that leave you? You go through this entire ordeal just to find out that your years of labor and training are simply not adequate - you didn't pass the test.
All the questions that are raised regarding the validity of a test to evaluate a minister's potential for ministry are in play here. Tell me, what does knowing about the "plenary inspiration of Scripture" or the reality of Eschaton have to do with whether or not you are qualified minister?
My experience was not like this thank Goodness!
I remember mine well. Only, my church does it quite different. When I expressed a desire for ordination, the elders met together and told me that I had to wait. As my pastor explained, "anyone can write (or copy) a doctrinal statement, they can study the answers and tell us what we want to hear. The proof of someone's ministry is in their ministry."
Basically, they wanted to observe me ministering and then "confirm my calling." So that's what they did. They watched me minister, listened to me teach the Bible, observed me life (both public and private), and then a couple years later - they ordained me.
Just like that. It was as close to a mentoring relationship as I have ever had.
They would have waited longer - usually the process took 3-5 years. But since I was called up to go to Iraq, they made did it quicker.
I think its the way to go really. I mean, you've seen the guy minister, you have heard him preach, you have seen his life - what more are you going to learn in a three hour interrogation session. Its a little be like rewarding the student that "tests" well. I heard a story once about a young man that didn't pass the counsel. The guy who told me about it thought it was kind of obnoxious that they would not ordain him. The poor guy was a great pastor but he got so nervous in front of his peers and they asked him such hard questions (I mean, when will people get it - Christianity is a journey and there are no firm answers to some questions? We try so hard to sew it up in a nice set of bullets, proof texts and statements - and miss the whole point - some mysteries of Christ are just hard and do not make sense!) anyway, they asked him such hard questions that he froze up and could not give them what they wanted to hear. (and that's why I hate these things - its all about what they want to hear. They are not really interested fleshing out the questions - they just want to know if you know the Ryrie answer... or the MacArthur answer... or maybe they are not MacArthur people and you have to come at it from another point of view!! Ahhh! ) This guy cast the only disagreeing vote. He thought the guy was quite ready to minister to shift workers in northern MN... just maybe not ready for a seminary class...
Go figure. Its not about being able to minister, its about answering questions.
Don't get me wrong, I think you need to have answers. I think you need to have a working knowledge with the theology that's out there. I believe firmly that doctrine is vital - I also believe that knowing a lot of head knowledge does not a pastor make. The only thing that can make a pastor a great one is the combination of all that head knowledge with a profound love for and desire to help people. Some folks would take a harder view I'm sure. Some folks look at the Christian life a one never-ending battle with the forces of "bad-doctrine." Frankly, I try to stay away from them. They will come into my office and drag me kicking and screaming into a one sided lecture on the "fundamentals of pre-millenniumism " like that's gonna get anybody to Heaven! I just do not care! I mean, I have an opinion on the issue to be sure - but its not set in stone and I really don't think it matters in the long run! Christ will come back and I'm leaving this 'ole world behind... someday...
And that's the thing. I think most pastors have to "do the ordination thing" the hard way - because the ones doing the ordination had to do it that way. Something about the attitude - if I had to go through all that, you best believe you will too... is that a good reason? This is very cynical to be sure. I know that probably no one would give that as an actual reason to put someone through the "crucible" experience, I just think that there could be a better way of ordaining someone into the ministry.
I say a better way of confirming a minister's qualifications is to assign a group of elders to observe and mentor the young minister over a period of several years, listen to his teaching, attend his classes, ask the church individually what they think about him and when they are convinced that he (or she) is ready for ministry - give them the green light. If you want to hear their beliefs on the Second Coming, have them teach a class on it. If you want to know their philosophy of ministry, have them write a paper for the benefit of the church. Speaking of the church, have them all gather round the young minister, support him and his family, have his ordination to ministry be a "whole church effort" instead of a sterile meeting overseen by "seasoned professionals." Who would know the shepherd better than the flock?
The event should be a celebration of God's preparing this young minister instead of this dreaded, scary event that no one wants to go to.
Preparing a minister should be a whole church effort. We are a community after all...
aren't we?
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Operation Warrior Trainer , Reflections3 Comments
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Chaplain Jon Fisher
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. I absolutely agree with you and I wish more churches would take a mentoring approach. I actually came from the opposite end of the spectrum. Being ordained Southern Baptist means different things in different places, but for the most part I think it's too easy. All I had to do was write a paper on several doctrinal topics and then go before a "council." I use quotes because 75% of my council were lay people with no theological training. To say the least, the questions were easy and more based on practical ministry issues than theology. The senior pastor of that church told me his was even easier. One guy at his actually held up the Baptist faith and message and asked him if he believed it. When he said yes, the man responded, "that's good enough for me." I was at an Evangelical Free ordination council where someone was not ordained a couple of months ago. I felt bad because the guy new what he believed, but he was so nervous that he kept trying to to say what he thought everyone wanted to hear. They ended up giving him another "lesser" endorsement, but he was pretty disappointed. I'm sure there are many other stories like that one. Anyway, thanks again.
Dave
Hey Jon...
I agree whole-heartedly with the concerns you and Dave have raised. And I have a suggestion. There are two important keys to a successful council. One is the host pastor, who may or may not be the candidate. The host pastor controls who gets invited to the council. Everybody knows who the jerks are... and they shouldn't get invited to participate. The second is the chairman of the council. Rather than allowing the council to choose a chairman at the meeting, the host church should do that in advance. As the man who controls the questioning, he should step in as an advocate of the candidate to shut off stupid lines of questioning and adversarial comments. My ordination council was a joy. There were almost 40 men in attendance, and the questioning lasted almost 6 hours. But the important thing was this - they all knew me. They knew my ministry, and were invited because we knew they loved me AND that they wouldn't give me softball questions. The line of questioning sought to see how I would handle different ministry situations based on the my use of the Word of God. It was one of the greatest days of my ministry. I'll pray that it's the same for Jesse.
ylf-i-l
Gee, where was the internal witness of the Holy Spirit to varify the calling. Such man wisdom, not God wisdom.